the operation statute will by law make these rates go up. that's what's changed. we know that. so why would we want to punish folks to see their taxes go up? >> just to can cut through it, if you do nothing, taxes go up on everybody. >> everybody. everybody. and we do nothing to fix the problem so, again, even if all those taxes go up and we know it's like a $4 trillion eitem over ten years well, remember, how much are we spending more than we're taking in each year over a trillion dollars? so even if you raise all those taxes it does not fix your problem. which is, again, what's changed. the operation and the statute. so we're trying to make things better and say let's take this opportunity to come together to fix the spending problem which is why we need both nancy pelosi, harry reid, and the president to come forward and say, hey, here are our ideas. >> mike? >> joe, you say correctly, you point out correctly, you were elected to fix problems whether it's missoula, montana, or richmond, virginia. the problem we have, clearly in your eyes, is probably the size of the federal